Cal Auto Museum Sacramento Customs Exhibition
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a story about getting stuck on a RR crossing and the door poppers wouldnât workâŠno interior handles as it was getting the upholstery done.
That sounds more than a little co-incidental and contrived đ
a story about getting stuck on a RR crossing and the door poppers wouldnât workâŠno interior handles as it was getting the upholstery done.
That sounds more than a little co-incidental and contrived
You’re entitled to believe whatever you want to…but Dick Jackson was there in the early days and his stories line up and remain consistent with what he has said before and what I have read or heard from other people. Not sure how much closer to the truth you can get than that. Why would he have mentioned being stuck on a RR crossing and unable to get out of the car if it wasn’t true? I have never heard anything from Dick Jackson that was said just to make up a story or even elaborate the truth. He is also great at telling the absolute truth on certain people and how it was to work with them- good or bad. It’s a fascinating insight without the George Barris “I did everything” spin on history. I guess the takeaway from this is that there never was a first chopped Merc when comparing the Quesnel Merc and Sam’s Merc…they were both chopped at the same exact time. Jerry Quesnel’s Merc hit the streets first because he was a paying customer who also worked on his own projects at the shop. Sam had a business to run and his personal chopped Merc took a backseat to Jerry’s as both cars neared completion. Sam’s not around to defend that history, obviously.
Robert A. Radcliffe III
King KustomsHere we go this, subject comes up again.? I love it. Rob… I partially agree with you on the Dick Jackson stuff and I’m not saying he’s lying but I find it hard to believe that if they were chopped at the exact same time when Marcia Campbell took her photos that she wouldn’t have taken any pictures of Sam’s car as well. And if there were any photos of the 2 cars together they would have ended up in that photo album that was discovered in Sacramento.
I know you mentioned that Sam is no longer here to defend himself and that is true but on the flip side of that Jerry is here and people seem to forget that or don’t ever mention that. Jerry has never tried to reach out to magazines or books to talk about this I am probably one of the only people that he’s talked about this with cause he really don’t care much about it. And the other person who was indeed there who’s story matches up with Jerrys was Jack Stewart and Jack Stewart talked a lot about this subject, some I have on video.
Also on the other hand you have to look at both of those mercs nobody can sit here and say that Sam’s is not more graceful or smoother or has better flow it’s obvious that Jerry’s was a guinea pig out of the two. It’s pretty rough and early looking. Jerry’s stories have never not added up. Maybe some timelines of 70s years ago have gotten confused but all in all they match. I don’t believe they were done cut for cut atvthe same time. Don’t forget ….Jerrys was getting done at night after his regular job ended. You can see in the construction pictures it was evening and nobody else was there. Remember. .. Jerry was very good friends with Sam not so much George. They drove each other’s merc’s sometimes.
I will have to ask Jerry about his windows and if he ever had an or check some of my photos.
Here we go this, subject comes up again.
I love it. Rob⊠I partially agree with you on the Dick Jackson stuff and Iâm not saying heâs lying but I find it hard to believe that if they were chopped at the exact same time when Marcia Campbell took her photos that she wouldnât have taken any pictures of Samâs car as well. And if there were any photos of the 2 cars together they would have ended up in that photo album that was discovered in Sacramento. I know you mentioned that Sam is no longer here to defend himself and that is true but on the flip side of that Jerry is here and people seem to forget that or donât ever mention that. Jerry has never tried to reach out to magazines or books to talk about this I am probably one of the only people that heâs talked about this with cause he really donât care much about it. And the other person who was indeed there whoâs story matches up with Jerrys was Jack Stewart and Jack Stewart talked a lot about this subject, some I have on video. Also on the other hand you have to look at both of those mercs nobody can sit here and say that Samâs is not more graceful or smoother or has better flow itâs obvious that Jerryâs was a guinea pig out of the two. Itâs pretty rough and early looking. Jerryâs stories have never not added up. Maybe some timelines of 70s years ago have gotten confused but all in all they match. I donât believe they were done cut for cut atvthe same time. Donât forget âŠ.Jerrys was getting done at night after his regular job ended. You can see in the construction pictures it was evening and nobody else was there. Remember. .. Jerry was very good friends with Sam not so much George. They drove each otherâs mercâs sometimes. I will have to ask Jerry about his windows and if he ever had an or check some of my photos.It’s fun to wonder what the real truth is…now that you mention Marcia Campbell never producing a picture of both cars at the shop together, it brings up a very good point. I’ve also tried to look at the style of chop each Merc has and wonder which came first- sometimes Sam’s looks more modern and sometimes Jerry’s does…the slanted B pillar versus straight I guess is the biggest thing that could determine a timeline. I wonder if we will ever know for sure?
Robert A. Radcliffe III
King KustomsHere we go this, subject comes up again.
I love it. Rob⊠I partially agree with you on the Dick Jackson stuff and Iâm not saying heâs lying but I find it hard to believe that if they were chopped at the exact same time when Marcia Campbell took her photos that she wouldnât have taken any pictures of Samâs car as well. And if there were any photos of the 2 cars together they would have ended up in that photo album that was discovered in Sacramento. I know you mentioned that Sam is no longer here to defend himself and that is true but on the flip side of that Jerry is here and people seem to forget that or donât ever mention that. Jerry has never tried to reach out to magazines or books to talk about this I am probably one of the only people that heâs talked about this with cause he really donât care much about it. And the other person who was indeed there whoâs story matches up with Jerrys was Jack Stewart and Jack Stewart talked a lot about this subject, some I have on video. Also on the other hand you have to look at both of those mercs nobody can sit here and say that Samâs is not more graceful or smoother or has better flow itâs obvious that Jerryâs was a guinea pig out of the two. Itâs pretty rough and early looking. Jerryâs stories have never not added up. Maybe some timelines of 70s years ago have gotten confused but all in all they match. I donât believe they were done cut for cut atvthe same time. Donât forget âŠ.Jerrys was getting done at night after his regular job ended. You can see in the construction pictures it was evening and nobody else was there. Remember. .. Jerry was very good friends with Sam not so much George. They drove each otherâs mercâs sometimes. I will have to ask Jerry about his windows and if he ever had an or check some of my photos.Itâs fun to wonder what the real truth isâŠnow that you mention Marcia Campbell never producing a picture of both cars at the shop together, it brings up a very good point. Iâve also tried to look at the style of chop each Merc has and wonder which came first- sometimes Samâs looks more modern and sometimes Jerryâs doesâŠthe slanted B pillar versus straight I guess is the biggest thing that could determine a timeline. I wonder if we will ever know for sure?
The biggest sticking point for me (and I know it annoys Jeff to no end sorry Jeff đ ) is we know that Jack Stewart showed his car at the HotRod and Motor Sports show Jan 25-28 without an interior in the car and his car is in the pictures of Jerry’s car being chopped with an interior we also know that Sam’s car was done and shown at the Oakland show less than a month later, Feb 20-25th, so I find it hard to believe that within the time frame of 20 or so days Jacks car got an interior installed, Sam was able to chop Jerry’s car before starting his own and then chop, body work and paint his own car. Seems like a stretch to me.
Here we go this, subject comes up again.
I love it. Rob⊠I partially agree with you on the Dick Jackson stuff and Iâm not saying heâs lying but I find it hard to believe that if they were chopped at the exact same time when Marcia Campbell took her photos that she wouldnât have taken any pictures of Samâs car as well. And if there were any photos of the 2 cars together they would have ended up in that photo album that was discovered in Sacramento. I know you mentioned that Sam is no longer here to defend himself and that is true but on the flip side of that Jerry is here and people seem to forget that or donât ever mention that. Jerry has never tried to reach out to magazines or books to talk about this I am probably one of the only people that heâs talked about this with cause he really donât care much about it. And the other person who was indeed there whoâs story matches up with Jerrys was Jack Stewart and Jack Stewart talked a lot about this subject, some I have on video. Also on the other hand you have to look at both of those mercs nobody can sit here and say that Samâs is not more graceful or smoother or has better flow itâs obvious that Jerryâs was a guinea pig out of the two. Itâs pretty rough and early looking. Jerryâs stories have never not added up. Maybe some timelines of 70s years ago have gotten confused but all in all they match. I donât believe they were done cut for cut atvthe same time. Donât forget âŠ.Jerrys was getting done at night after his regular job ended. You can see in the construction pictures it was evening and nobody else was there. Remember. .. Jerry was very good friends with Sam not so much George. They drove each otherâs mercâs sometimes. I will have to ask Jerry about his windows and if he ever had an or check some of my photos.Itâs fun to wonder what the real truth isâŠnow that you mention Marcia Campbell never producing a picture of both cars at the shop together, it brings up a very good point. Iâve also tried to look at the style of chop each Merc has and wonder which came first- sometimes Samâs looks more modern and sometimes Jerryâs doesâŠthe slanted B pillar versus straight I guess is the biggest thing that could determine a timeline. I wonder if we will ever know for sure?
The biggest sticking point for me (and I know it annoys Jeff to no end sorry Jeff
) is we know that Jack Stewart showed his car at the HotRod and Motor Sports show Jan 25-28 without an interior in the car and his car is in the pictures of Jerryâs car being chopped with an interior we also know that Samâs car was done and shown at the Oakland show less than a month later, Feb 20-25th, so I find it hard to believe that within the time frame of 20 or so days Jacks car got an interior installed, Sam was able to chop Jerryâs car before starting his own and then chop, body work and paint his own car. Seems like a stretch to me.All good points…
Sometimes, my brain really gets into this stuff and it’s fun to think critically of the timeline. These guys would probably laugh at us all if they knew we put this much thought into it though haha. Fun to think about, regardless!
Robert A. Radcliffe III
King KustomsHere we go this, subject comes up again.
I love it. Rob⊠I partially agree with you on the Dick Jackson stuff and Iâm not saying heâs lying but I find it hard to believe that if they were chopped at the exact same time when Marcia Campbell took her photos that she wouldnât have taken any pictures of Samâs car as well. And if there were any photos of the 2 cars together they would have ended up in that photo album that was discovered in Sacramento. I know you mentioned that Sam is no longer here to defend himself and that is true but on the flip side of that Jerry is here and people seem to forget that or donât ever mention that. Jerry has never tried to reach out to magazines or books to talk about this I am probably one of the only people that heâs talked about this with cause he really donât care much about it. And the other person who was indeed there whoâs story matches up with Jerrys was Jack Stewart and Jack Stewart talked a lot about this subject, some I have on video. Also on the other hand you have to look at both of those mercs nobody can sit here and say that Samâs is not more graceful or smoother or has better flow itâs obvious that Jerryâs was a guinea pig out of the two. Itâs pretty rough and early looking. Jerryâs stories have never not added up. Maybe some timelines of 70s years ago have gotten confused but all in all they match. I donât believe they were done cut for cut atvthe same time. Donât forget âŠ.Jerrys was getting done at night after his regular job ended. You can see in the construction pictures it was evening and nobody else was there. Remember. .. Jerry was very good friends with Sam not so much George. They drove each otherâs mercâs sometimes. I will have to ask Jerry about his windows and if he ever had an or check some of my photos.Itâs fun to wonder what the real truth isâŠnow that you mention Marcia Campbell never producing a picture of both cars at the shop together, it brings up a very good point. Iâve also tried to look at the style of chop each Merc has and wonder which came first- sometimes Samâs looks more modern and sometimes Jerryâs doesâŠthe slanted B pillar versus straight I guess is the biggest thing that could determine a timeline. I wonder if we will ever know for sure?
The biggest sticking point for me (and I know it annoys Jeff to no end sorry Jeff
) is we know that Jack Stewart showed his car at the HotRod and Motor Sports show Jan 25-28 without an interior in the car and his car is in the pictures of Jerryâs car being chopped with an interior we also know that Samâs car was done and shown at the Oakland show less than a month later, Feb 20-25th, so I find it hard to believe that within the time frame of 20 or so days Jacks car got an interior installed, Sam was able to chop Jerryâs car before starting his own and then chop, body work and paint his own car. Seems like a stretch to me.<p style=”text-align: left;”>All good points⊠Sometimes, my brain really gets into this stuff and itâs fun to think critically of the timeline. These guys would probably laugh at us all if they knew we put this much thought into it though haha. Fun to think about, regardless!
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One of the guys who was there does laugh at all of us talking about this and going back forth about the subject of his car. Of coarse I’m talking about Jerry since he is still alive and sometimes talks about this time. The funny thing about it is… Jerry is still talking about this stuff yet his word seems to be invalid and not carry much weight. I have always wondered that through our years of talking about this subject. Jack Stewart said the same thing as Jerry yet both of their words don’t hold much weight ?  So if Sam was still around and said his version would people just write it off like they do with Jerry and Jack’s versions ? You gotta remember these guys are the ones we are talking about. Never once has Jerry tried to claim anything about his merc to anyone or any publication. Just seems a little unfair to Jerry.I’ve never doubted Jerry’s story…just shared what I have heard from Dick Jackson. Although I met and spoke with Jack Stewart many times, I never asked him about this particular subject (silly to think of not doing so now…). He was too busy bragging about chasing tail with George Barris and those stories were pretty good haha.
I always end up in an undecided state on this whole thing, yet I find it fascinating to think about at times. My personal thoughts- for what they’re worth- drift toward the differences between both chops. It is interesting to try and put together a timeline of when each was done based on those differences; slanted vs. straight B pillars, heavier chop on Quesnel’s, quarter window shapes, etc. Another thing to note is who had their hands in both chops- I’ve heard Sam and Jerry both helped each other, so this might support that both were done simultaneously (but maybe not). Dick Jackson has also said he helped Sam chop his Merc, so that is one reason why I cherish his side of the story.
This is not to say that any observations on both of these chops would undermine the spoken or written words of Quesnel, Jackson, Stewart, or both Barris brothers. Come to think of it, it would be fun if all were still alive and this topic came up in the same room.
On a side note, Jeff- since you do have a good connection with Quesnel, it would be fantastic to document anything he is willing to share from the good old days- either about his Merc or anything else…I know many of us would really dig that!
Robert A. Radcliffe III
King KustomsI just went to this link and studied the pictures of Sam working on Jerry’s Merc:
My evidence that would prove Jerry’s could have been chopped first is based on the cuts on his door tops and shape of the quarter windows. In the third or fourth picture down where Sam is welding on the inside of the passenger door, you can see a gas weld on the door top in the middle. I’ve always thought the B pillars were over-angled and exaggerated on the Quesnel chop, so perhaps that is where the door tops were shortened to allow for that. Or, was it because the chop was done first and they were still figuring out the best ways to slice and dice the new ’49 Merc top?
The cuts on the door tops right above where the vent windows go are just typical pie cuts to allow the freshly chopped door tops to fit the new door opening since the roof is now lower in the rear, tapering down from front to back as a result of the chop. I’ve also studied these pictures and wondered if a second front half of a door top was reversed and used for the rear edge of the door tops? Not likely- and grainy, old pictures don’t show enough evidence.
My thoughts on the quarter window shape- It’s much easier to fit the stainless, glass, and inside garnish molding back together on a chopped quarter window opening that retains more of the original round factory shape. The stock ’49-’51 Merc quarter window C pillar corner is so round from the factory, that it takes a lot of work to chop and fit everything back together unless you retain that roundness. Jerry’s are pointier than Sam’s, so perhaps Sam learned his lesson by the time he chopped his after Jerry’s? Or maybe it was all personal preference?
Again, all personal (and therefore possibly worthless) observations…hahaha
Robert A. Radcliffe III
King KustomsI don’t discount what either of them have said I just take it with a grain of salt. We are talking about a 20 day period over 60 years ago, pretty easy to forget or mix up the exact times things happened. I also look at the fact that some of the information they have provided in the past , like Jerry saying his chop was started in his driveway, has proven to be incorrect so personally I can’t just blow that off and say everything else he has remembered is absolutely correct except that one pretty major detail. Other stuff like Jack not being able to remember when his car was upholstered but knowing for sure that Jerry’s car was done before Sam’s when, again, it was all within a very tight time space gives me pause. It is nothing against either of them, I couldn’t exactly remember these things if they happened 2 years ago and I have a pretty good memory so I would not be surprised if their recollection is not spot on. I also wonder if it was such a big deal that Jerry’s car was the first chopped and Marcia was there to document it for that reason she would have stated it was the first chopped on her album. For me, as stated above, the timeline as we know it right now is almost impossibly tight for things to have happened they way they remember I could very well be wrong but until there is further physical evidence that’s where I stand on it. Personally I think the two cars were chopped virtually simultaneously.
Maybe the point is moot and Gil beat both of them to the punch and Louis’ was chopped first but had so much more customizing done than the other two it didn’t hit the streets until later. đ
How the hell does a thread on a museum exibit become this never ending debate on which Merc was chopped first. Neither side of the debate is going to change their mind. I do know which chop looks the best.. Sams. My money is on the Gil being the first..
How the hell does a thread on a museum exibit become this never ending debate on which Merc was chopped first. Neither side of the debate is going to change their mind. I do know which chop looks the best.. Sams. My money is on the Gil being the first..
Damnit- I was just going to bring up whether Nefertiti’s bust is actually ancient or a 19th century hoax…but I guess you don’t want to hear about that either đ
Robert A. Radcliffe III
King Kustoms
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