Ayala "Green Gold" Paint: My search
- This topic has 133 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 11 months ago by Rik Hoving.
-
AuthorPosts
-
April 15, 2014 at 09:52 #12288Manuel ReyesParticipant
Hi Ian,
I’ve been following your posts as you travel down the path in achieving the color you’re trying to get to.
Your last 3 pictures look like the “color”. You’re pretty damn close. I have to agree with Jeff Neppi, that’s the color I associate with the “Organic Lime Gold” colors used back in the day.Today I was at my paint guys paint store picking up some stuff and I talked to him again about your quest to get to the color you want and he’s aware of what it would look like. We talked about lacquer since it would be easier to spray and I mentioned “that somewhere on this earth, someone must have a stash of lacquer toners/paint”. Then he said he had 2 large pallets way back in his shop filled with cans of Nitrocellous Lacquer Tonors and Paint. I asked if he had any lime/gold toner in that stash and he said he must. So we kind of planned for me to come to his shop in 1 1/2 weeks on a Sunday so I can help him drag out those pallets and look for the toners you can use. He has some clear also. I mentioned that I painted a couple of cars in candy lacquer but the customers didn’t have the funds for a rubbed out paint job, so I painted them in lacquer, put some clear lacquer over it, let it dry / shrink up for a week or two, water sanded in 400 grit and sprayed a couple of coats of clear urethane over it. It flowed out like glass, no rubbing and the customers were happy with the results. You can do the same with nitrocellous and the new urethanes can be rubbed out, plus you have better UV protection as compared to the clear nitro.
Anyhow, this could be your answer. But first, I need to find enough like gold toner and some clear for your project. We can’t do it this Sunday since it’s Easter, so the following Sunday works for both of us since his shop is open 6 days a week. Maybe there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Keep your fingers crossed. I’ll let you know how this goes.
Keep the faith,
Manuel ReyesApril 17, 2014 at 07:36 #12445Ian GibbonsParticipantWow Manuel that is awesome thanks so much for all your help with this it is greatly appreciated!!!
April 17, 2014 at 07:47 #12446Jeff NepplParticipantWow this a great quest 🙂 I think Keith Dean nailed the lime gold when he painted this truck. To me this looks pretty close to your samples and what comes to my mind when talking…. Ayala Lime Gold.
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.April 17, 2014 at 14:37 #12470TorchieParticipantYour dedication to finding the right color for your custom is great Ian.
I agree with Manuel and Jeff in regards to you getting close. Maybe your even there as it is really hard to get accurate
pics of colors for many reasons.
Not suprised that Manuel has found a stash of laquer paints. They pop up here on Craigs list from time to time.
Many of the older paint stores that handled it just stored the stock away rather than pay the cost of disposing of it correctly.
Keep at brother. We are all watching.
Torchie.April 21, 2014 at 01:29 #12562Ian GibbonsParticipantThanks guys! Hey Jeff that trucks colour has always intrigued me as it looks really different in different pictures which is almost exactly what the one I have sprayed is like. It is very gold straight on and then very lime coloured on the curves and when looked at on an angle. I wonder if Keith mixed a custom colour or used something that already existed?
April 23, 2014 at 23:21 #12635Ian GibbonsParticipantLook what I found. 🙂 Total accident I was at a PPG jobber waiting for their salesman and was killing time wandering around their warehouse when I came across two old BASF variance boards and wouldn’t you know it the M6000 deck was there.
Basf deck 2
I don’t know for sure if this is the same variance as in the restoration picture but it was they only one in the deck that I thought was even close to a lime gold colour. To be honest it is not nearly as vibrant as I would have expected. It’s is pouring rain here so I couldn’t look at it outside but inside it was pretty blah. Now the decks are old and pretty scratched up so it was tough to get an honest feel for the color but I think I may like what I have been doing better.
Anyways the paint code is BASF M6010T. I might have a pint mixed up so I can spray some (the jobber I found the deck at is no longer a BASF Distributor so they can’t do it) and see what it is like but my first impression is it’s kind of bland so now I am in a bit of a quandary, do I go with something that one would think is pretty close to the original colour given the pictures that were taken during the restoration or something that material wise is more similar to what was probably used but may not be a close to the original colour as I had hoped.
Ahh the never ending saga.
April 24, 2014 at 06:35 #12641Rik HovingKeymasterWow.. that is quite a turn in the search… and one that leaves a big question.
I think that there are a few things that you have to keep in mind.
One, the color/paint on the door jamb was most likely not rubbed out or polished before the color was matched with the color deck. The extra polish might have brighten the color a bit.
Two, we are used to bright and brilliant colors in our daily lives. This might effect our choices in what we might think colors looked back then.On the Jack Stewart Ford Palle had/has a similar problem. Perhaps a little less since there are some color samples left on the car. But still those are overspray and still very hard to match. For the GNRS this overspray was color matched and the paint used on the dash and window garnish. These parts were painted with this newly matched metallic paint and clear coated. A nice color… but the end result was far from a period feel. Palle, en me feel that the original color was a much more bland than the modern color that was mixed. And the effect was highlighted by the clear coats. It will have to be redone.
Enjoy the beauty of Customizing
April 26, 2014 at 07:07 #12703Jeff NepplParticipantThanks guys! Hey Jeff that trucks colour has always intrigued me as it looks really different in different pictures which is almost exactly what the one I have sprayed is like. It is very gold straight on and then very lime coloured on the curves and when looked at on an angle. I wonder if Keith mixed a custom colour or used something that already existed?
I think it was a mixed color and if im not mistaken Larry Watson gave his approval on the authenticity of the Lime gold. The paint was mixed for a very well known merc but the owner changed his mind after he seen it. Its hard for merc owners to stray from burgundy. I think it was destiny because I think its perfect for Johns truck.
April 26, 2014 at 22:26 #12711TorchieParticipantLook what I found. Total accident I was at a PPG jobber waiting for their salesman and was killing time wandering around their warehouse when I came across two old BASF variance boards and wouldn’t you know it the M6000 deck was there.
Basf deck 2
I don’t know for sure if this is the same variance as in the restoration picture but it was they only one in the deck that I thought was even close to a lime gold colour. To be honest it is not nearly as vibrant as I would have expected. It’s is pouring rain here so I couldn’t look at it outside but inside it was pretty blah. Now the decks are old and pretty scratched up so it was tough to get an honest feel for the color but I think I may like what I have been doing better.
Anyways the paint code is BASF M6010T. I might have a pint mixed up so I can spray some (the jobber I found the deck at is no longer a BASF Distributor so they can’t do it) and see what it is like but my first impression is it’s kind of bland so now I am in a bit of a quandary, do I go with something that one would think is pretty close to the original colour given the pictures that were taken during the restoration or something that material wise is more similar to what was probably used but may not be a close to the original colour as I had hoped.
Ahh the never ending saga.
Here’s my 2 cents Ian.
As Rik said. Quite a turn in events……
With out the benefit of a paint code or as in the case of Jer’s Jesses lopez clone where Jesse himself is still with us to ok the paint color, trying to duplicate color via a picture is always going to be a “best guess” scenario. Just for an example I posted 2 pics of the the exact same outboard motor hood that I painted last summer. Only difference is in the angle I took the pic from and to me one looks darker than the other.
If you like your version better than the paint card you are holding I would go with that.
To go thru all that you have and then to paint your custom only to end up dissapointed in the color would truly be a shame.
As I stated, just my 2 cents worth.
Carry on brother.
TorchieAttachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.April 27, 2014 at 00:00 #12714Ian GibbonsParticipantThanks guys! I agree that duplicating a paint colour from pictures is pretty much a pointless task and I am not expecting to have my colour match any of the pictures of the Welch Merc.
My biggest dilemma now is probably more to do with my confidence in painting my whole truck in the concoction I have come up with and having it turn out right in comparison to the ease of walking into a paint store and getting a gallon of paint mixed up that is ready to go and pretty much a two step process rather than the convoluted multi step process that I have used to get where I am with my test colour. I will probably get some of the BASF colour mixed and spray a test to see what it is like in a larger scale as the variance deck is hard to judge.
That being said I do really like the idea of doing the paint in a similar manner and with similar materials to how the Ayala’s would have done it way more than using a bc/cc so we will see.
Thanks for following along on my journey if nothing else it has been fun!!
April 28, 2014 at 08:15 #12735Manuel ReyesParticipantHey Ian,
The paint Gods are on your side.
On my last reply to you, I mentioned I planned to go to one of my paint suppliers today and he opened the back of his store, and after moving tons of stuff (I’ll tell you about this part tomorrow) – we found the paint materials you’ll need to accomplish the color you’re after. It’s Nitro Cellulose Lacquer. Just like the materials Gil Ayala would have used.
We found enough material to paint your truck. In reality, we didn’t find any lime-gold toners, but we found a great lemon yellow toner that has a slight lime cast to it, then we found gold toner to get it closer. The green toners we found to get to a lime cast were all dried up, but he has universal toners so we can get it a little more lime. The toners we found are “clean” toners that will achieve the look. We also found mixing clears, the proper thinners and clear acrylic lacquer. Again enough to do your truck.
The paint shop owner has sprayed and mixed a lot of custom colors, candies and pearls plus metallics, so he’s knowledgable in how to achieve your color. He agreed with me on the directions I have helped you with. The best part is that this type of paint is easier to apply then the new base coat/ clears. One thing though, the new clears are more durable in the long run. But, you can still paint a car in nitro lacquer with its nitro or acrylic clear, you just have to take real good care of it.
As Rik mentioned to you, the new colors are brighter and more brilliant, but the color you want is very bright and the corresponding clears have a different gloss than the new clears, but they look pretty.
I don’t know if you’ve ever painted a complete car before, but some practicing with test panels will give you the confidence you’ll need. Of course, you need a good spray gun.
If you’re still interested, I can go back, mix a small batch, spray a sample and mail it to you so you can see if you want to go ahead with this paint. I can’t go back this week since I’m planning to spray my car this week or early next week.
We really have to praise the paint shop owner for coming in on a Sunday, moving a ton of stuff to get to the paint, which were in many boxes in 2 pallets. I helped and in reality, it was fun finding all kinds of neat toners.
Talk to you later,
Manuel ReyesApril 28, 2014 at 18:11 #12736Ian GibbonsParticipantWow Manuel!! It was incredibly generous of you and your friend to spend your Sunday digging through boxes to find paint for a complete stranger. It is very much appreciated. It would be awesome if you would be willing to spray a sample and send it out.
I am pretty close with reps from all the major gun manufacturers and they have all offered to let me use a gun for this project if I don’t have one that will work currently (which I probably don’t). Never having sprayed lacquer what tip size would be most recommended? The only lacquer any of the reps have any experience with up here is in the wood working industry so they are uncertain as to what would be best as well.
Thanks again for all your help with this and I hope you post some pictures of your car once you are finished spraying it I would love to see it!!
April 28, 2014 at 18:45 #12737Jeff NepplParticipantThis is really good and exciting. I have ALWAYS wanted to paint my car in lacquer for a real period feel and look. I have always had people trying to talk me out of it but the look is in a league of its own. I might have to see if I can hook up with some of that paint. 🙂
Ian… I think those samples you found were right on with Ayala color after seeing the sample on the Wally Welch merc in the photo where they are sanding. This is a great color for your truck and I hope it all works out.
I might be wrong on this but I think this color had SOME influence on the color choices of the Hirohata merc. After winning the pan pacific in 51 and showing Louies in 52,the Ayalas showed that customs didn’t have to be burgundy or a dark color to be successful. That color was anything but dark and it totally went against the grain but showed much authority inside the Pan Pacific. Also dont forget the color the Hirohata merc was painted a few years after those Pan Pacific shows.April 30, 2014 at 00:46 #12790Manuel ReyesParticipantHey Ian,
The paint shop owner and I in reality had fun searching because we also found some other nice toner colors. Too bad none of his green toners are good anymore. We couldn’t figure that one out. We moved tons of stuff to get to the 2 pallets. We even had to move a car lift with a Camaro on it, then we could get to all the boxes. We had to open about 20 until we found that the descriptions of the conents were written on the opposite side from us. The pallets were put in backwards and the color names in the boxes were facing away from us, then we found 2 pieces if paper with the complete list/part number/color name and which pallet they were in. I told the owner to make a copy of them to put away in case the list in the boxes were lost. Once we found that list it saved us a bunch of time, just opened the boxes with the colors we were looking for. (later I’ll send you pics of the crime scene where we did all our searching).
I planned to mix some small batches of your color till we found the right shade, then spray a sample to send you. The way we see it, once the mixture works, then when you need the paint he can send you the paint all ready mixed. We can talk about this later.
I’ll check on spray gun tip size for lacquer.
Keep it real,
ManuelApril 30, 2014 at 01:05 #12791Ian GibbonsParticipantHoly!! Again thanks so much!! Not sure where you are located but I will be in Southern California at the end of May for holidays with my family. We will be going to the WCC show at Santa Maria and then heading down to San Diego for a week. If you are anywhere in that area I would love to drop in and thank you personally. I could probably even take the samples back with me rather than have you go to the trouble of shipping them. If not we can arrange the shipping when the time comes.
My email is ianwgibbons@gmail.com if you find it would be easier to communicate that way although I think you have provided a ton of very useful and interesting info for a number of people on this board so I think the general information at least would be great to keep to this thread if we can.
Thanks again!!!!!
Ian -
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.